2009 Hall of Fame Ballot Candidates
• Harold Baines (1980-2001) He was a very good player for the White Sox for years, and actually played most of his games as DH instead of outfield. His career hit total is high (2866), but he'd probably not be elected even if he had 3,000 because of his repuation of never being dominant, and he kinda hung around too long. He had a solid career, but never was HOF material. There should be a Hall of Very Good, where most of these 1980's players on this year's ballot should go to.
• Jay Bell (1986-2003) Very solid shortstop/3B/2B, known for sac bunting with the Pirates and then having a fluke HR year for the Diamondbacks in 1999, but really had a good under the radar career for an infielder. Hall of Underappreciated, along with others on the 2009 ballot.
• Bert Blyleven (1970-1992) More strikeouts, innings, and wins than Mike Mussina. If he earned his 287 wins in NY, he'd be elected already.
• David Cone (1986-2001, 2003) My favorite pitcher as a kid. Bad luck and wildness prevented him from being a HOF.
• Andre Dawson (1976-1996) The very definition of borderline: he declined pretty bad, but was one of the best in his prime. Great defensive CF and RF (although had bad knees). Oft injured and played for some bad teams. Although he hardly walked and got on base, some advanced stats show him as better than Bernie Williams, and many reporters considered The Hawk to be a future Hall of Famer while he was playing.
• Ron Gant (1987-2003) Never lived up to his potential. I remember how scary he was when I was a Mets fan in the 1990's, but how weak his career was when looking at his stats now.
• Mark Grace (1988-2003) The Cubs 1B had the hits and batting average, but not a HOF career. Not even close to MVP voting, only a few All-Star appearances, no power from 1B.
• Rickey Henderson (1979-2003) Uhmm...The Man of Steal had better be elected on his first ballot.
• Tommy John (1963-1989) 26-years of being slightly above average and still didn't get 300 wins. Obviously someone who pitched so long has value, but not HOF value.
• Don Mattingly (1982-1995) At his peak, he was regarded as one of the best ever. But his career was too short due to his back injury.
• Mark McGwire (1986-2001) The MEDIA built him up, and torn him down. Of course, he belongs, I would vote for him but the sportswriters don't vote for performance enhancers. Mark is paying the price, and will pay for years to come.
• Jack Morris (1977-1994) His high ERA and lack of 300 wins keeps him on the outside. Frankly I never considered him a future HOF pitcher, but he had a great career, better than the bigger names of the 1980's.
• Dale Murphy (1976-1993) A great person who had a high peak of MVP-type seasons, but who fell off the cliff too soon. He had too many years in decline.
• Jesse Orosco (1979-2003) One of the greatest relief pitchers ever, but the Hall of Fame is not for lefty specialists.
• Dave Parker (1973-1991) Excellent prime, and was considered one of the best in the game in the 1970's with the Pirates, and had a monster 1985 with the Reds, but cocaine and a sharp decline killed his career numbers, and he was too one dimensional.
• Dan Plesac (1986-2003) A lefty relief pitcher who was employed for so long because he was...a lefty.
• Tim Raines (1979-2002) Tim is someone who is not borderline- he should be in. He was always in the shadow of Rickey, being the "second best leadoff man" in baseball. He was underated while he was a player, although it could be argued he was the best National League leadoff man in history, and the NL best player from 1985-1987. Raines had a cocaine problem, and was regarded as a "has been" or part-timer latter on in his career, although he won 2 rings with the Yankees. Tim's snub last year frustrates me.
• Jim Rice (1974-1989) He benefited from playing at Fenway Park for his entire career, and was very one-dimensional. He had a super first half peak, but wasn't the same player for the second half of his career. His fearsome reputation is due to his high RBI totals, and his 6-years of greatness. His 382 HRs are...not that impressive.
• Lee Smith (1980-1997) There are only 5 relief pitchers in the Hall of Fame, and Lee Smith should be one of them. His 473 career saves was a record for 13 years. While playing, he was considered one of the top closers in the game, and had a better career than recent HOF inductee Bruce Sutter.
• Alan Trammell (1977-1996) The Tigers shortstop is considered by some to be one of the Top 15 shortstops of all time, but is disrespected by sportswriters. He created more runs than Ozzie Smith, but was always compared to Cal Ripken and Robin Yount in the American League.
• Greg Vaughn (1989-2003) A product of the 1990's hitter's era (smaller ballparks, bad pitching, and big guys). His career was too short, and his insane HR totals were a product of the times.
• Mo Vaughn (1991-2003) Big time Red Sox slugger flamed out due to his weight. Put up the big HR numbers like his cousin Greg in a slugger's era.
• Matt Williams (1987-2003) He was a great HR hitting 3B (378 HR) for a long time with the Giants, but his lack of on-base-percentage, awards, and hit totals kill his candicany. Because his raw totals are less than other sluggers from other positions, people tend to forget how fearsome he was. It should be noted Matt was involved in an HGH scandal.
PREDICTIONS:
The voters will elect Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice in 2009. I disagree with Rice over Raines, McGwire, Trammell, Blyleven, and Lee Smith. Even Andre Dawson was better than Rice.
Labels: HOF
posted by Skew @ 6:15 PM
38 Comments:
I agree with mostly all of the H.O.F. players the daily skew
has chosen but(and i have one)
DAVID CONE should be selected
for the H.O.F. and DEFINITELY
for the last time i will say this:
DONNY BASEBALL!And If Ricky Henderson does not get in on the
1st year's ballot choice of hall
of famers of baseball players,
well then i have to say this, that
something's wrong with all of
the people who "VOTE" these players
in .
Thank God for the veteran's committee or there would be so
many guys not selected to get in the H.O.F. The players who "really"
deserved to be in along time ago!
Jim Rice, what the hell does a players attitude have to do with
getting in? Then if a bad "attitude" goes against a ball
player, then being a ball player
who has class,and dignity etc.
Don Mattingly should be honored!
A lot of guys from Coney's era never were able to stack up HOF careers like Clemens, Maddux, Johnson, Pedro, Mussina, Glavine, Ryan, or Smoltz.
Hershiser, Gooden, El Sid, Saberhagen, Dave Stieb, Key, Wells, Leiter, Kevin Brown, Stewart, Mike Scott, Dennis Martinez,- they all were great but not HOF.
trammell should be in, 2 best shortstop of his era
I think Rickey and Blyleven get in this year.
To me, If Dave Concepcion is not in the Hall of Fame, then something is wrong. He was the best shortstop combined offensively and defensively of the 70's. He dominated his position like no other in his era, his stats for a shortstop are equal if not better than many shortstops like pee wee reese, all those old timer shortstops.
Well, it's Rice's last year, and he was at 72.2% last year, [75% to qualify]. Bert was at 61.9% and would have to leapfrog Andre Dawson and Rice. Bert has been gaining support in recent years.
s Rickey top 20 (MLB) all time, or does he miss the cut?
Ruth, Williams, Bonds, Mays, Wagner, Cobb, Speaker, Musial, Aaron, Schmidt, Hornsby, Morgan, Mantle, Collins, Gehrig...is that it for players clearly better than him? You have candidates like Brett, Mathews, F-Rob, Ott, Foxx - how many, if any of them, would be placed above Rickey?
uhmm...did you forget SS and C???
or pitchers..lol
Rickey never played 162 games in any single season.
Even in his MVP season, he missed 26 games.
Was he injury prone? Or were they simply giving him a rest every so often?
Henderson played "every day" during 1979-1982.
In his 21 subsequent seasons he played 90% of team games four times.
Rickey Henderson 1989
played 65 of 68 games for New York,
missed the trade day, June 21,
played 85 of 91 games for Oakland.
I recall an article on Rickey in the late 1980s that talked about how banged up he always was from the constant sliding on steal attempts and dives back into first. I don't think that he was necessarily injury-prone, he just played a style of ball more physically demanding than most.
I wish there were more articles like that today.
Bill James said Gary Redus was better that Rickey in 1985. I have that issue.
Why?
Redus had a secondary average of .537, which was the highest in baseball, higher even than Henderson's .528.
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT LETTING RICE IN, WILL OPEN THE DOOR TO ALL BORDER-LINE CANDIDATES, AND MAKE THE HALL OF FAME A LARGE HOF.
FROM NOW ON, WRITERS WILL SAY "WELL, IF JIM RICE IS IN...SO SHOULD MY PLAYER".
Like Big Papi in the far future?
Bruce Sutter opened the door for Goose, so it's not all bad to let a borderline guy in.
How about when Trevor Hoffman gets in before Lee Smith?
With McGwire still on the ballot, I wonder how full it will look in 5 years with guys like Sosa, Palmeiro, Bonds, Clemens, etc etc
yah, meanwhile, piazza and bagwell (who were always suspected of juicing) will be in.
Albert Belle got screwed...He accomplished just as much as Rice's entire career before his hip injury forced him to retire at 33.
Jim Rice,the most dominant hitter of his era, belongs in the HOF.
Mike Mussina has a better ERA+ (ERA adjusted for league average and ballpark; 100 is average, higher is better) than Bert Blyleven: Mussina 123, Blyeven 118. And Mussina beats Blyleven by a shade in he HOF Monitor, 121 to 120.5. When you consider that Mussina achieved his stats while pitching in the AL East during the steroids era, his accomplishments improve by comparison.
Roy White was a more valuable player than Rice.
I believe Jack Morris should be in as well. If people are going to rant about Shilling being in down the road , then Jack should be in. He was about as clutch as you could get.
sorry Jim Rice is not a hall of famer. he’s a great player but he shouldn’t be in the hall. I can count about 5 hall of fame worthy years in his career (and I only took RBI and HR as criteria) the others are not as good. He had 4, 30+HR seasons, to be a slugger that’s not enough, ESPECIALLY when his home ball park was Fenway Park AND he was a right handed hitter.
I like Trammell, Raines, and Blyleven but they just weren’t elite players (which is my criteria for the HOF). Raines and Trammel were solid and Trammell gets a couple extra points for playing his entire career with one team but he was never the best player on his own team except for maybe 1987. Raines is the same way. Blyleven was just an average pitcher who played a long time.
Mattingly would get a sentimental vote but he was only an elite player for 4 years. I also agree that Tommy John’s surgery should be in the HOF…it revolutionized the game of baseball.
Rice’s career home/away splits:
Fenway: .320 .374 .546
Away: .277 .330 .459
in other words, Rice was mediocre when not in Fenway. it is ludicrous that Rice even gets serious consideration.
Rickey is not a 1st ballot HOF'er. He is not an inner circle elite immortal. He was a mercenary for hire for most of his career and never really did much to “wow” anyone outside of stealing bases. Fantastic player, but not first-ballot in my estimations.
How old are you? He played for 2 teams for the 1st 16 yrs of his career.
Henderson is an absolute first ballot guy, he’s the best leadoff man ever, 3,000+ hits, 297 HR, 1,000+ RBI and all those steals and runs scored. I think Tim Raines and Andre Dawson are more deserving than Jim Rice. Blyleven, John and Kaat are no votes if you compare them to Gibson, Koufax et al, but they are all more deserving than Neikro, Sutton and Gaylord Perry so that’s a toughie. Lee Smith is proof that saves are an over rated measure of a reliever’s performance. Look at the top ten saves leaders and you’ll see guys like Jeff Reardon and Randy Meyers among others.
rice should not get in because he was a “first-class jerk”. how many others were snubbed for this reason over the years? i believe character is one of the things judged, along with being good at baseball… i also agree with other on his home/road splits.
I've got a mad love mancrush on Harold Baines and I'd love to see him enshrined because he was such a classy ballplayer but I cannot come up with a single reason why he'd deserve it. I mean, I was cheering hard for 3000 hits, 400 HR, 1700 RBI since (1) it would likely get him in and (2) if it didn't it would provide hours of fun on an annual basis debating his worthiness.
Baines was one of my favorite players when I was a kid, but there's no way he's a Hall of Famer.
If he had reached 3000 hits, then there would have been a serious reconsideration of the "3000 hits = automatic entry" rule. I like the DH, but in his case, you've got to consider that his career would have been over in the late '80s had he not been able to DH.
Much like it's companion hitting mark, 500 home runs, I'm skeptical that automatic entry rule was ever in place. The only 3,000-club member whose HOF membership is questionable is Lou Brock, who might have been inducted without 3,000 hits due to his place atop the all-time steals mark.
There simply hasn't been a player reach 3,000 hits with no other reasons for induction, so I think the rubber stamp is more presumed than real.
During the 70s/80s I vaguely recall that Blyleven was regarded at least the equal of Sutton... but then Sutton (with better luck in teammates) cleared 300 by a healthy margin and Blyleven fell short. Since then the perception has shifted not only to "Sutton was better" to
"Sutton was always better" to "Sutton was always regarded as better".
Personally, my recollection was that Blyleven was almost always regarded at the time as a #1 starter, whereas Sutton was not.
Eddie Murray passed a milestone that "forced the hand" of the subset of writers who would have preferred to look the other way. Bert's failure to clear a perceived "magic number" gives folks the chance to indulge their lesser selves.
Post a Comment
Links to this post:
Create a Link
<< Home